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G2G: Carey, first I want to thank you for taking time out of your recording schedule to talk with me for a bit...
Kosher: Absolutely, although I must say that in this case, its not taking time from my recording schedule but from my songwriting, teaching, and pastoring schedule. I'm in Tennessee currently, where I'm getting ready to teach an Old Testament course at Bethel University, as well as getting ready for weekend worship. I'll next be in Austin with the guys for recording the week after Mother's Day. I do want to say thanks so much for doing this interview, as well as for your great support of our new project!
G2G: I have been such a big fan of the band for so long...I feel like I know you and Paul Q-Pek (guitarist) and Daniel (Tuchek--bassist) on an almost personal level. In fact, I've corresponded with Paul and Daniel through the mail, of all things!
Kosher: Awesome! Thank you!
G2G: So...is it okay if I call you Kosher? (Laughing)
Kosher: Of course...Mr. Parker...
G2G: (Laughing) Okay, so, for those not familiar, One Bad Pig is a skate/punk/thrash crossover band that has been together...in one form or another...since the early 80's. More than 30 years now. And you've never officially broken up...
Kosher: Yep...still squealin'...
G2G: How does the band and your style of music continue working after all of these years?
Kosher: Well, while our music definitely isn't for everybody, neither is it very specifically and narrowly for a very specific group of people, either. What I mean by that is our music has never been confined to one very narrow genre. While its fair to call us a punk band, you can't say that we sound like the Ramones or the Sex Pistols or some other classic punk band. We also don't sound like the pop punk bands that exploded in the late 80's and the 90's. We've always been a bit of our own thing, mixing in elements of thrash, metal, and rock n roll, all with plenty of hooks that can be appreciated by anybody. And, of course, everything we do is topped off with a big dollop of humor and with a real passion for what we are singing about. So...we don't limit ourselves to a particular time or genre or sound, and we are able to reach and appeal to a greater cross-section of people across different age groups and periods of time. At least those are my thoughts...you can tell me if you think I'm right...
G2G: I would agree with that. There are so many different elements to your sound, especially as you transition from album to album. There has been a definite evolution to your sound throughout your studio records, but its always still One Bad Pig, without question. So, can we expect continued growth on this new album?
Kosher: Oh yeah! Everyone will hear what is unmistakably One Bad Pig...very familiar...but you'll also hear some new sounds that are brand new to One Bad Pig. Among other things, this is the very first studio album we have ever done with two guitarists in the band, and Lee Haley is a very different guitarist than Paul Q-Pek, so you really get to hear some great new flavors in each and every song.
G2G: Speaking of members, One Bad Pig has had something of a revolving door of members throughout the years, with you and Q-Pek being the two consistent cogs in the machine. Do you keep in touch with members who may have drifted away from the band through the years? Do you hear from Streak (bassist on Smash), for example?
Kosher: Unfortunately, Bryan "Streak" Wheeler is the guy that has been the hardest for us to keep up with. He has had some tough things happen in his life since his time in the band. Lift him up in your prayers.
Mike Connell and Jon Taylor we keep up with occasionally through social media. I even saw Jon in Jackson, Tennessee several years ago when he moved to a similar area of Tennessee that I had.
We bump into Kevin Phelan every now and then, but we've connected with him a good deal more recently as he worked with his dad, Carl Phelan, on the "One Bad Pig Forever" book project.
As far as Phillip Owens (drummer on all previous studio albums) goes, God is using him in some astounding ways, and I still regard him as a part of the band that just isn't able to participate in this project. And that's not to lessen Paul Roraback's contribution as the drummer to this new project, or his place in the band, at all. He's been great.
G2G: That's awesome to hear. So, I have to ask you...why after all of these years, why did you guys say, "you know what? It's time to unleash the squeal one more time?"
Kosher: (Laughs) Well, it was a combination of things. In January and February of 2015, I made a trip to Austin to be with my dad. I made it a point to try to arrange a get-together with the guys from the band, and as it turned out, Paul (Q-Pek), Daniel, Phillip. and Lee were able to come out and meet at one of Austin's Chuy's restaurants (a New Mexican twist on Tex Mex with a cool, quirky atmosphere). Doug Van Pelt showed up as well. (Interviewer's note: Doug was the long-time editor of Heaven's Metal Magazine)
Whenever we get together, it's a blast...and it was once again! We had a great time reminiscing and laughing...mostly laughing...and the conversation turned to whether we were at all interested in trying to get together to do something for our 30th anniversary, which was approaching. We were all intrigued by the idea, knew we would have fun with it, and felt the Lord would use it.
But...on the other hand...we are all very busy with our lives, responsibilities, and families. And, being in a band is expensive. It costs a lot of time, energy, effort...and of course money...and so we had to consider whether it was worth it to try to put something together.
We sensed that our culture needs Jesus more than ever. We talked about how there were many who walked with the Lord...both in and out of bands...back in our heyday that no longer did so. But WE do, and WE are just as passionate about Him as ever...if just a bit less energetic and idealistic. We felt that our continued commitment and conviction to follow Jesus was a statement in and of itself, and we felt like we still had a message to share.
Plus...there were also rumors of a possible AudioFeed booking, but nothing was concrete.
So...fast forward a couple of months, and we were gathered at the house of Carl Phelan, the father of
our founding bassist, Kevin, and grandfather of one of Flyleaf's guitar players. Carl had already written a book about that band (Flyleaf), and he was working on a self-published book project about us called, "One Bad Pig Forever". So, we all gathered at his house to have a MAJOR recorded reminiscing session to help him with his research. Well, we also watched a video of the very first one Bad Pig performance, at the 1985 Zilker Park Labor Day Christian Music Festival. It was awesome, and really got us excited and thinking even more.
So, again we talked about getting together and about possibly playing AudioFeed, which had become a genuine invitation by this point. We wondered if we could make it financially work without losing our shirts. Phillip was interested, but not absolutely positive, as he had to leave a bit early. We discussed the idea of doing a crowd-funded recording project to stir the interest in the band and to get out the message we had such conviction about...plus, it helps to have new merchandise to helps to provide capital to cover our costs to AudioFeed. So, we told AudioFeed "yes", but Phillip said he would have to bow out as his daughter was getting married, he was working extra, and he was leading worship at a major conference in Italy, and simply couldn't make his schedule work. He was disappointed to not be able to participate, but encouraged us to go ahead and play the show with another drummer if we wanted to, which we agreed to do, although we hoped Phillip could still be on the new record. He is just such a good drummer, writer, singer, and especially friend and brother. But, as it turned out, Phillip felt it would be too much of a drain on his time and energy at such an important time for him and his family and the ministry that God had called him to.
G2G: That's too bad because Phillip has basically been there forever, other than the A Christian Banned demo...
Kosher: Absolutely, It was very hard, no doubt. But at the same time, the others of us felt a new
project was absolutely essential to make the trip to AudioFeed in Illinois possible financially...plus, we were excited about it! So, we agreed to explore drumming and recording possibilities and to see what transpired as we continued to think and pray about it.
Some of the guys had gotten to know Paul Roraback who had been the drummer in Grammatrain and who had also spent a couple of years with Bloodgood. He had moved to Austin and had done several projects of artful, tasty progressive rock, in which he played guitar and sang. He had self-produced and recorded these projects...wait for it...at his home studio! So the Austin-based guys got together with him, prayed about it, and he agreed to drum on the album and to record and engineer the project at his home studio. Praise the Lord! Paul is a fantastic brother with a great family who loves the Lord and shares a lot with us. We have been having a great time getting to know him and spend time with him.
G2G: So how did the idea to go to Kickstarter come about?
Kosher: Well, crowd-funding has really changed the music world. When our deal with Myrrh Records came to an end, Christian record labels were being bought out by secular giants, and they were trimming the rosters to only the artists they felt had big commercial potential. That meant that not only were bands like us parting ways with Myrrh, but so were awesome artists like Phil Keaggy and The Choir.
In the years since that, the world of technology, the Internet, and crowd-sourcing has made music a lot more feasible for the little guy, so it seemed the obvious...and likely ONLY...way for us to go.
G2G: Personally, I've been on-board with the band almost since the beginning through the Christian metal underground music and magazine scene of the 80's, so I was glad to contribute to the Kickstarter fund and just so excited that you guys are back and doing a new record!
Kosher: Thanks for being with us all those years, Arttie. Those stories mean a lot...
G2G: Was it hard to get back into "Kosher" shape, vocally, after just being Carey for so many years?
Kosher: To a certain extent, I was NEVER in Kosher shape! (Laughing) If I didn't have my voice loud enough in my monitors, I would just keep pushing harder and harder in a lot of shows to try to make sure I was heard. So keeping my voice from getting shredded was always a challenge. That said, the years have made hitting the high notes harder to hit, and its taking some work to try to get the stamina back.
The other challenge is that we've always written and rehearsed tuned together before...and sometimes to a small extent, after...going into the studio. But now, with technology, I'm hearing a rough mix of tracks for my rehearsal purposes before even arriving in Austin to record vocals, not having worked through them live with the band. After all these years, that is actually particularly hard. I also have a weird timing issue, partly due to me being a music fan first, before being a musician.
I'm also going to need to get into MUCH better shape physically. I've lost a lot of weight in the last year, but I really need to get my cardio up for a proper Pig gig!
G2G: Too many ice cream sundaes? (laughing)
Kosher: Yeah, too many ice cream sundaes and a lot of other stuff for the prior weight gain! But, or course I was never a little guy. It's more about spending too many hours in front of a screen or in a car and not enough chasing my kids, working outside, playing basketball, swimming or running.
G2G: Back to your voice for a second. Was it a conscious effort to get something akin to a pig's squeal at the top end of your vocals...as in "Bowl Of Wrath" or "You're A Pagan"...or is that just how your voice comes out?
Kosher: Actually, on that particular squeal at the beginning of "Bowl Of Wrath", that was some kind of little toy that I think Phillip had picked up. We recorded it on several tracks, slapped some effects on it, and there you have it.
However, I think Billy's (Billy Smiley, producer on all previous OBP records) favorite part of recording was when we got to a part where I was doing some really serious squealing/screaming. They'd get me going on it and I would watch him just doubling over with laughter in the sound booth. The fact that Billy is still rocking and getting ready to release the Union Of Saints And Sinners today is that I gave him an injection of youth through all that laughter he enjoyed at my expense.
G2G: I want to take you back to the 80's for a minute. It seems to me that there was a lot more of a Christian metal community at that time. I mentioned to someone in another interview...maybe it was Rey Parra or Rex Carroll...that I always had this sense that everyone at Pure Metal Records, or everyone at Sanctuary Church...whatever...that they all just hung out and barbecued and were great friends and such. Is there any reality to that belief?
Kosher: I think there was a lot of community that occurred, but not necessarily centered in the labels. That may be more true of some labels than others, though. For instance, in our time with our first label, Pure Metal, we were geographically isolated from the label itself, from the other bands on the label, etc., and we basically did nothing with them. Community occurred when there was real opportunity for relationship, especially for bands who were in it with sincere motives, when we found ourselves at an event or at a show together. There was an instant camaraderie born of shared purposes and commitments. And, if we were in it for the Lord, we tended not to take ourselves too seriously or have a prima dona complex.
So, that's why you would see the guys from Bloodgood, Whitecross, and other bands bigger than us banging their heads on our live video. We wore Bloodgood's wireless mics for that show. There was definitely an "all for one" or perhaps better said, "all for THE One" attitude on a lot of occasions.
I also think the Sanctuary bands had a community because they lived near each other, they worshiped together...at least in some cases...and they shared similar spiritual leadership. But, once again, it comes down to relationships. That's the basis of real community. And, if shared relationships with the Lord are involved, the process is facilitated and hastened, partly because "How shall brothers walk together, except they be agreed".
G2G: I talk with Rex Carroll from time to time...just yesterday, in fact...and he said much the same thing. Which kind of leads me to my next question. There seems to be several more Christian bands hitting the mainstream now...Skillet, Thousand Foot Krutch, Red, Flyleaf, etc., but they all play festivals with secular bands and tour with secular bands...not that there's anything wrong with that at all. But I do wonder if there is that same sense of camaraderie there. The 80's Christian scene just seemed so tight and so organic... Maybe that was due to the more underground nature of the scene...
Kosher: Well, it's a much different strategy in the model you are talking about today. I suspect that much of the ministry that takes place in those circumstances are the Christian bands forming authentic relationships with other bands, roadies, tour personnel, etc. Not all will be open to their relationships with the Lord, but some will. And, the are actively bringing light into the world. They may not shut down the music and preach a sermon with an altar call, like Glenn Kaiser (Resurrection Band/Rez)...or even your's truly...but they are not in an atmosphere that is conducive to that. I hope that they are doing it that way because they feel called to do so. If they're serious about serving the Lord, that's a tougher road because its a more lonely, more challenging atmosphere. But, I believe God is using many of them in great ways.
G2G: Did you encounter any bands who were in the scene for the wrong reasons? There are a couple of regularly mentioned instances...
Kosher: Yes, but I'm not naming names! (Laughs) Bear in mind that a lot of people in many of these bands were young and immature, getting their first taste of fame...even as a medium perch in a small pond...away from home, and perhaps they had spent more time emulating their rock and roll heroes than Jesus. Others wanted to commit their music to the Lord but weren't sure what that meant. And of course, we were all human. We were assuming roles that carried great responsibility, so we were role models whether we liked it or not. But the proper role to play was not perfect saint on a pedestal. Ideally, we would model a humble,authentic desire to serve and followJesus, while being real but not parading our brokenness.
All of us in One Bad Pig had our moments, as we. One of us had an interaction with a girl...nothing scandalous, but not appropriate...that later came to the attention of Glenn Kaiser. He called me up and asked that we deal with it biblically and seriously, and we did. I, myself, had more than one instance in which I was confronted about significant sin of one kind or another. We took it seriously, we involved our pastors, I repented, and I took steps to change my behavior.
The bands to be concerned about were the ones willing to portray themselves on a pedestal and the ones...sometimes the same bands...who had little-to-no interest in authentically serving the Lord or walking closely with Him. And, while I know I saw that on several occasions, we need to be careful about where we point our judging finger.
Look, some of these bands were being forced into the ministry band mold, and they were not even called to do that. All believers are called to be true to the Lord, but our specific callings, especially vocationally ad publicly, can be quite different. Some of these bands had members whose faith was not truly owned by them or fully formed. Some were just playing a role. I think its a key question for any believer in the arts; what exactly is God calling ME to do with my art? Some people will say that being evangelistic or message-driven with our art is just propaganda and that it is bastardizing the value and authenticity of our art. I would argue that our art, such that it is, is not "selling our faith", or some such thing, rather it is so much a part of who we ARE and what we are ABOUT that it IS an authentic expression.
G2G: Looking back now, did you have any inkling that One Bad Pig would be recording a new album some thirty years after this thing started? I know you couldn't have known specifically, but did it ever occur to you that you might be onto something really lasting and special?
Kosher: Thinking about when or if we thought that we had something special...in a way, EVERYTHING that has happened has been a huge surprise. But, at the same time, from very early on there have been inklings.
I don't know how much your readers know about the origins of the band, but it was really kind of an accident. In fact, it was a joke. Two threads of events among a certain group of friends in Austin, Texas led to the birth of the Pig. In Thread 1, as I am sure is the case in many locales, a bunch of us who were interested in edgier Christian music had managed to find each other. One regular activity that we developed coincided with our weekly Christian rock radio show. Paul Q-Pek was a disc jockey at KIXL, an AM Christian radio station that allowed him a slot on Friday and Saturday nights where he could play whatever was hot and rocking in the Christian scene. Some of us got the idea to go down to some of the punk and metal clubs in town after the radio show and engage in street witnessing with the kids and people who were there. I can remember running down the sidewalks with a couple of friends singing early Undercover and Altar Boys songs acappella.
G2G: I would imagine that was a sight!
Kosher: Right?! Well, Thread 2 is that several of us had heard about the first ever Cornerstone Music Festival in the summer of 1984. A guy named Curtis Tarpley and I drove up to that first one together in my VW Bug. It was AWESOME! For Cornerstone '85, we brought Q-Pek and Melvin Gene "Freedom" Noble, a West-Texas bred Jesus hippie who was totally into JPUSA (Jesus People USA), creators of the festival. We stopped in a suburb of St. Louis at a Pizza Hut for lunch, and they
were doing a promotion with a local rock radio station, KSHE, selling these wraparound chrome sunglasses with the KSHE logo on it. We thought it was a tough looking pig (which turned out to be a female pig named Sweet Meat), and I saw that and said, "Man, that is one bad pig!" Paul said that sounded like the name of a punk band, and it was the start of a running joke that would last the entire trip...and then beyond!
So, weaving those threads together, a bunch of us had been working on planning a local Christian music festival in Austin caled the Zilker Park Labor Day Christian Music Festival. After we got home, we thought, "why not play a short set as One Bad Pig, as sort of a joke?" Our weekend radio schedule began adding music rehearsals to our agenda after that. Freedom wasn't able to play, so we found a bass playing friend, Kevin Phelan. We decided we needed a drum kit, so we recruited a young drummer from Q-Pek's band, named Phillip Owens. We worked on covers of some Lifesavors and Undercover songs, and I wrote the lyrics to an original song that Paul set to music. It was called "Anarchy Is Prison", and it was directed at the anarchist philosophy espoused by at least some punks.
Well, on Labor Day, we did our thing and it was outrageous! It was also ROUGH! (Laughing) It was also, by far, the most aggressive act at the festival. We went into it with a bizarre combination of treating it as both a joke and something serious at the same time. As the band cam on stage, a svelte, shirtless Paul Q-Pek, with a full head of hair leading the way, I came barreling down the hill from behind the audience, screaming and leaping onto the stage to deliver something never seen or heard before...PIG MUSIC! Playing up the pig reference, I delivered a sermonette that riffed off of George Orwell's Animal Farm, screaming at the crowd, "We are One Bad Pig, YOU are One Bad Pig!", saying that we were all unacceptable to God unless washed clean by Jesus' blood.
The thing is, despite offending our share of the crowd, a large number responded positively, even if they hated the music. We prayed with some audience members backstage after the show, and a friend led one person to the Lord, bringing them over to pray with us. People said they could sense God using One Bad Pig that day. From there we started working our way into clubs that we had been witnessing outside of. Repeatedly, we had the experience of seeing an open door, praying about it, then walking through. I don't know that we ever foresaw the scope of the impact we were to have, but all along the way we kept getting glimmers, and open doors, and we kept walking through. It was as though God was giving light for the next few steps but never really telling us the final destination.
Now, it was not all one smooth slope. There were all sorts of bumps, lulls, and interruptions along the way, Yet, one thing kept astounding us--God would use something foolish in the eyes of the world, something that started as a joke...our band...and if we would just make ourselves available and allow Him to use us, He would do just that,
G2G: Here am I...
Kosher: Exactly. So, in a sense, every new step and every new opportunity was...and is...a surprise we would never have anticipated along the way. But, on the other hand, He's done it so often that all these surprises aren't surprising at all.
G2G: You mention offending a segment of the crowds at your early shows, and I was going to ask about that, so it worked out perfectly. Did you have a lot of push back, a lot of doors shut in your face due to your look, sound, name, etc?
Kosher: Absolutely. In fact, that's the source of the name of the first, self-released demo EP, A Christian Banned. There was a local punk label who liked us called Unclean Records. The owner really wanted to sign us. However, he was distributed by a big punk distributor in California and they refused to sign us because we were "too Christian", even though punk was all about self-expression. Within a day or so of hearing that disappointing news, we were turned down to play a coffeehouse hosted by a local church that met at a shopping center. We had even previously played there. Why? Because we were "too worldly". So, we found ourselves, in the words of the great Mark Heard, "...too sacred for the sinners/And the saints wish I would leave/Now I'm stuck here in the middle..."
G2G: Alright, let's fast forward to a bit more success for the band, because it really isn't all that far down the road that you find yourself working with a man many consider to be THE original punk...the original rebel...Johnny Cash...
Kosher: Yep. What an honor it was to work with Johnny. That voice was AMAZING! He was so humble, and he really wanted to serve the Lord and to contribute to what we were doing. Very cool. We need a lot more like Johnny around. It was very clear that he wasn't a perfect man, but his transparency about that and his need for Christ made his faith and testimony that much more real and powerful.
There was actually talk later of us getting to do the Tonight Show, or something like that, with Johnny, but that talk never got very far. We've never really been able to do "The Man In Black" live before, but this summer we're going to get to do it, at least on one or two occasions. There's an Austin band called The Band In Black that started by doing Johnny Cash covers, and now does originals in that same vein. Their singer, Jason Birdwell, does a pretty mean Johnny impression, and he's going to do it live with us a time or two.
G2G: So, how did the Johnny Cash teaming even come about? You aren't exactly likely to show up on the same radar screen very often...
Kosher: We had several special guests on our first two records with Billy Smiley, and we really wanted everything on our third record, I Scream Sunday, to be just us, unless we had one REALLY special guest on the album. So, the Johnny Cash connection started as a case of our people talking to his people, specifically our A&R guy, Mark Maxwell. After it became a realistic possibility, Paul Q-Pek worked up the great arrangement of the song, "The Man In Black". I recorded my vocal part and a scratch vocal of Johnny's part.
As the time approached to make some final decisions, a few things happened. I had gone back to Austin to leave the mixes to the other guys, and we got invited to a John, Jr. 18th Birthday Bash being held at a massive club out in the boonies outside of Nashville. I had read Johnny's book, The Man In White, a novella about the Apostle Paul's conversion upon encountering the Man in white on the road to Damascus, and I was impressed. A lot of people were. Even Billy Graham called it the best fictional treatment of Paul he had ever read. But I was not only impressed with the book, but
also with Johnny's forward to the book in which he explained how he came to write it and much about his spiritual walk. I wrote him quite a long letter explaining what we were about and what I hoped would be contributed to our mission as a band by his participation in the project.
The record company flew me back out to be there for John, Jr.'s party. and we went with the hope and expectation of meeting Johnny and spending a little time with him, getting to pitch the idea of him doing the duet. But, as it turned out, this place was packed with hundreds and hundreds of country music elite. It was filled with smoke and warm bodies an is perhaps the most crowded place I've ever been in my life. We finally saw Johnny and June take the stage, along with John Jr., and a bunch of others. But, not very long after that, Johnny announced that June was not feeling very well and that they were unfortunately going to have to leave early.
They started up an aisle from the stage with a press of people and security all around them. I began to fight my way through the crowd as quickly as I could and spilled outside the door at the top of the stairs just after Johnny had done the same. With trepidation, I called out to him and told him who I was and handed him this letter. The next day he called and tld his manager that he wanted to do this One Bad Pig thing.
G2G: Awesome!
Kosher: So...the record company flew me back to Austin and then back out again for the recording session. As we waited for things to get underway, we heard of several print publications that were going to come out and record the session for posterity. This also included the Crook & Chase country television show. We were so excited that we were going to have a larger audience to spread the gospel to with this opportunity! One by one, we learned that none of these organizations were going to be able to come and cover the session that day, however. We were disappointed. Not only that, but Johnny was also quite late in arriving.
After a period of time, Daniel suggested we go outinto the larger recording room and spend some time in prayer. We circled up and began to pray. It was during that time that Johnny showed up, and he explained to us that he had been on a deathwatch at his mother's bedside. However, he told us he really wanted to do this with us and he felt he needed to get away for a little while. Daniel invited him to join the circle and pray with us and we did so. What a powerful time!
Johnny was incredible. I cringed every time Billy Smiley would offer a suggestion or ask him to do another take, but Johnny was great and always humble obliged. Afterwards we posed for pictures and shot Silly String at each other.
As I was traveling home that night, I was reading in Mark's gospel about how Peter protested when Jesus said he was to be arrested and killed. You might remember that Jesus told Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!" As I read that passage, I heard the Lord speak to me, "Get behind me, Satan! You are concerned about the things of men rather than the things of God. I didn't need you today to proclaim my name on some television show. I needed you there to pray with one of my children."
Even as I tell you that story today, Arttie, I get tears in my eyes.
It was only last year when we were reminiscing for Carl's book project that I learned that Johnny's mother recovered from that illness and went on to live a few more years. By the way, I've learned that Carl has had some health probles and I encourage everyone to lift him up in prayer.
G2G: So, Kosher, as we speak, you Kickstarter goal has been met and surpassed, including the stretch goal which allows for vinyl pressings of the new record. What does it feel like to you guys to still mean so much to your fans after all these years?
Kosher: We are thrilled! And humbled! It just blows us away what the Lord continues to do, and we are doing our dead level best to really make it worth everybody's while. We're bathing it in prayer and working really hard. The creativity of the guys in the band is awesome. You know, Billy Smiley was the producer on all of our previous releases, and he's already let us know that he really likes how it's sounding.
It's also great to know that not only will we really get to do the CD, we will also for sure now be able to do the vinyl record. That is so cool, and we are stoked.
I don't know how many shows we are going to get to do with this, but I do know that just like always, it's going to be 110% mayhem and 110% ministry all the way. No holding anything back.
G2G: You teack at a college, correct? I teach high school, myself.
Kosher: Really?
G2G: Yeah, I work with juvenile offenders and struggling kids...
Kosher: That's awesome, Arttie. I'm a full-time pastor, but I am teaching an Old Testament course as an adjunct at Bethel University in McKenzie, Tennessee this semester. I truly enjoy it.
When I lived in Austin, I worked over a decade in a hospital/treatment center for head-injured and multiple-diagnosis behavioral disorder patients. Most of that time I spent working in an accredited school they had on campus. Then, the last year and a half in Austin, I worked with our county's juvenile offender intervention program, intended as a last gasp attempt before the kids hit the state system. So, I have some ideas of what you're dealing with.
G2G: That's awesome...
Kosher: When we moved to Tennessee and I went back to finish college, I got my degree and teaching certificate in Exceptional Learning and Development (Special Education). That was before going on to seminary, even though that was the plan all along.
G2G: I am also endorsed in Special Education...
Kosher: Very cool...very cool...
G2G: So, do any of your students know the "Kosher" side of Mr. Womack?
Kosher: I've mentioned it, but so far they seem pretty unimpressed. (Laughs) I'm going to tell a good story from back in the day on Monday, though, so we'll see where that goes. (Laughs)
There's a guy that comes into the math class that meets in our room right after us who connected with me around St. Paddy's Day...you know, all things Irish. He really likes a lot of the Irish punk bands
like the Dropkick Murphys, so I referred him to Flatfoot 56. By the way, those who like that kind of thing will be particularly interested in one song on the new record...
It's funny where Pig connections come up, though. We have some kids at church who go to high school in the next county up. Their band director, it turns out, is a big Pig fan!
G2G: So, you're packing up the Pig van for a big show. How many cans of Silly String go?
Kosher: Well, I guess that depends on the money left over from the Kickstarter campaign! (Laughs) Just kidding...mostly! In general, we have two cans per band member per show, plus two for our onstage hand, and a few backups. So, for a standard show, around 15 or so. For a really big show, with maybe more active stage hands, more like 25.
Pretty early on, particularly when we were a four piece, we decided if we were going to travel with one extra person, we were better off traveling with a stage hand than with a sound guy, and we were right.
G2G: How about guitars to smash?
Kosher: It depends. How many guitars can we find cheap? (Laughs) Yeah, that's right Pig fans, we;re not out there smashing $5000 guitars...or $500 guitars for that matter...night after night. We usually go to a pawn shop and say, "Do you have any guitars that you don't have out right now?
Maybe something that's in such bad shape you're embarrassed to put it out right now...", and we go from there.
Of course, we take donations, as well. (In his best advertisement voice) Do YOU have a guitar whose better days are way behind it? An instrument that fights instead of plays? A six-string that screeches unknown notes instead of sings? Bring it to us and we will help it go out in splinters of glory! (Laughs)
Anyway...what were you asking?
G2G: (Laughing) How many do you take?
Kosher: Oh, yeah. At least one more than we think we'll need. For a small, routine show, it may just be me smashing one guitar, or perhaps me and an audience member. For a bigger gig, we'd like to have multiple smashes, and it depends on what we can afford. Of course, we offered as Kickstarter rewards the opportunity to smash a guitar with us on-stage at either the Audiofeed Festival or the album release show in Austin on June 24. To be honest, we haven't completely planned our stage set ye, so who knows how many stringed instruments we may have?
G2G: Do you still give on-stage haircuts?
Kosher: (Laughs) Let's Be Frank, Arttie, big hair, long hair...it's not nearly the problem it was 25 years ago. And, government regulations are likely much more stringent today. I'd rather eat a Bowl of Wrath! Frankly, I don't care if a guy's (or girl's) hair looks like a Birdnest, I'm not likely to give them a haircut. In fact, I may tell them to Take A Flying Leap! And, if someone doesn't like the way I'm answering this question, I say, "Take A Look At Yourself!" Ask me if I'm scared; tell me if you See Me Sweat! (Interviewer's note...all of the above entries in capital letters are titles of One Bad Pig songs that Kosher was throwing in for amusement...)
Actually, we have a large back catalog of songs filled with antics, and we're not going to be doing each and every one of them. Not likely to get many two and a half hour sets these days. And we want to play a bunch of these great new songs, so...I don't know about the haircuts. We'll see what happens.
G2G: My kids are 8 and 4 and are big "Big Bad Pig" fans, as my 4 year old calls you. He loves "For A Good Man" and "Birdnest" and "Smash The Guitar", while my 8-year old loves "Never Forget The Cross" and will sing "We Want You" at the top of his lungs. I realize you don't play out a lot now, but did you see a lot of multi-generational families at shows?
Kosher: It's funny, but we've seen a lot of young children, down to toddler age...
G2G: Piglets!
G2G: I have been such a big fan of the band for so long...I feel like I know you and Paul Q-Pek (guitarist) and Daniel (Tuchek--bassist) on an almost personal level. In fact, I've corresponded with Paul and Daniel through the mail, of all things!
Kosher: Awesome! Thank you!
G2G: So...is it okay if I call you Kosher? (Laughing)
Kosher: Of course...Mr. Parker...
G2G: (Laughing) Okay, so, for those not familiar, One Bad Pig is a skate/punk/thrash crossover band that has been together...in one form or another...since the early 80's. More than 30 years now. And you've never officially broken up...
Kosher: Yep...still squealin'...
G2G: How does the band and your style of music continue working after all of these years?
Kosher: Well, while our music definitely isn't for everybody, neither is it very specifically and narrowly for a very specific group of people, either. What I mean by that is our music has never been confined to one very narrow genre. While its fair to call us a punk band, you can't say that we sound like the Ramones or the Sex Pistols or some other classic punk band. We also don't sound like the pop punk bands that exploded in the late 80's and the 90's. We've always been a bit of our own thing, mixing in elements of thrash, metal, and rock n roll, all with plenty of hooks that can be appreciated by anybody. And, of course, everything we do is topped off with a big dollop of humor and with a real passion for what we are singing about. So...we don't limit ourselves to a particular time or genre or sound, and we are able to reach and appeal to a greater cross-section of people across different age groups and periods of time. At least those are my thoughts...you can tell me if you think I'm right...
G2G: I would agree with that. There are so many different elements to your sound, especially as you transition from album to album. There has been a definite evolution to your sound throughout your studio records, but its always still One Bad Pig, without question. So, can we expect continued growth on this new album?
Kosher: Oh yeah! Everyone will hear what is unmistakably One Bad Pig...very familiar...but you'll also hear some new sounds that are brand new to One Bad Pig. Among other things, this is the very first studio album we have ever done with two guitarists in the band, and Lee Haley is a very different guitarist than Paul Q-Pek, so you really get to hear some great new flavors in each and every song.
G2G: Speaking of members, One Bad Pig has had something of a revolving door of members throughout the years, with you and Q-Pek being the two consistent cogs in the machine. Do you keep in touch with members who may have drifted away from the band through the years? Do you hear from Streak (bassist on Smash), for example?
Kosher: Unfortunately, Bryan "Streak" Wheeler is the guy that has been the hardest for us to keep up with. He has had some tough things happen in his life since his time in the band. Lift him up in your prayers.
Mike Connell and Jon Taylor we keep up with occasionally through social media. I even saw Jon in Jackson, Tennessee several years ago when he moved to a similar area of Tennessee that I had.
We bump into Kevin Phelan every now and then, but we've connected with him a good deal more recently as he worked with his dad, Carl Phelan, on the "One Bad Pig Forever" book project.
As far as Phillip Owens (drummer on all previous studio albums) goes, God is using him in some astounding ways, and I still regard him as a part of the band that just isn't able to participate in this project. And that's not to lessen Paul Roraback's contribution as the drummer to this new project, or his place in the band, at all. He's been great.
G2G: That's awesome to hear. So, I have to ask you...why after all of these years, why did you guys say, "you know what? It's time to unleash the squeal one more time?"
Kosher: (Laughs) Well, it was a combination of things. In January and February of 2015, I made a trip to Austin to be with my dad. I made it a point to try to arrange a get-together with the guys from the band, and as it turned out, Paul (Q-Pek), Daniel, Phillip. and Lee were able to come out and meet at one of Austin's Chuy's restaurants (a New Mexican twist on Tex Mex with a cool, quirky atmosphere). Doug Van Pelt showed up as well. (Interviewer's note: Doug was the long-time editor of Heaven's Metal Magazine)
Whenever we get together, it's a blast...and it was once again! We had a great time reminiscing and laughing...mostly laughing...and the conversation turned to whether we were at all interested in trying to get together to do something for our 30th anniversary, which was approaching. We were all intrigued by the idea, knew we would have fun with it, and felt the Lord would use it.
But...on the other hand...we are all very busy with our lives, responsibilities, and families. And, being in a band is expensive. It costs a lot of time, energy, effort...and of course money...and so we had to consider whether it was worth it to try to put something together.
We sensed that our culture needs Jesus more than ever. We talked about how there were many who walked with the Lord...both in and out of bands...back in our heyday that no longer did so. But WE do, and WE are just as passionate about Him as ever...if just a bit less energetic and idealistic. We felt that our continued commitment and conviction to follow Jesus was a statement in and of itself, and we felt like we still had a message to share.
Plus...there were also rumors of a possible AudioFeed booking, but nothing was concrete.
So...fast forward a couple of months, and we were gathered at the house of Carl Phelan, the father of
So, again we talked about getting together and about possibly playing AudioFeed, which had become a genuine invitation by this point. We wondered if we could make it financially work without losing our shirts. Phillip was interested, but not absolutely positive, as he had to leave a bit early. We discussed the idea of doing a crowd-funded recording project to stir the interest in the band and to get out the message we had such conviction about...plus, it helps to have new merchandise to helps to provide capital to cover our costs to AudioFeed. So, we told AudioFeed "yes", but Phillip said he would have to bow out as his daughter was getting married, he was working extra, and he was leading worship at a major conference in Italy, and simply couldn't make his schedule work. He was disappointed to not be able to participate, but encouraged us to go ahead and play the show with another drummer if we wanted to, which we agreed to do, although we hoped Phillip could still be on the new record. He is just such a good drummer, writer, singer, and especially friend and brother. But, as it turned out, Phillip felt it would be too much of a drain on his time and energy at such an important time for him and his family and the ministry that God had called him to.
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| (The "A Christian Banned" demo) |
Kosher: Absolutely, It was very hard, no doubt. But at the same time, the others of us felt a new
project was absolutely essential to make the trip to AudioFeed in Illinois possible financially...plus, we were excited about it! So, we agreed to explore drumming and recording possibilities and to see what transpired as we continued to think and pray about it.
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| (2016 L-R: Roraback, Tuchek, Q-Pek, Kosher, Haley) |
Some of the guys had gotten to know Paul Roraback who had been the drummer in Grammatrain and who had also spent a couple of years with Bloodgood. He had moved to Austin and had done several projects of artful, tasty progressive rock, in which he played guitar and sang. He had self-produced and recorded these projects...wait for it...at his home studio! So the Austin-based guys got together with him, prayed about it, and he agreed to drum on the album and to record and engineer the project at his home studio. Praise the Lord! Paul is a fantastic brother with a great family who loves the Lord and shares a lot with us. We have been having a great time getting to know him and spend time with him.
G2G: So how did the idea to go to Kickstarter come about?
Kosher: Well, crowd-funding has really changed the music world. When our deal with Myrrh Records came to an end, Christian record labels were being bought out by secular giants, and they were trimming the rosters to only the artists they felt had big commercial potential. That meant that not only were bands like us parting ways with Myrrh, but so were awesome artists like Phil Keaggy and The Choir.
In the years since that, the world of technology, the Internet, and crowd-sourcing has made music a lot more feasible for the little guy, so it seemed the obvious...and likely ONLY...way for us to go.
G2G: Personally, I've been on-board with the band almost since the beginning through the Christian metal underground music and magazine scene of the 80's, so I was glad to contribute to the Kickstarter fund and just so excited that you guys are back and doing a new record!
Kosher: Thanks for being with us all those years, Arttie. Those stories mean a lot...
G2G: Was it hard to get back into "Kosher" shape, vocally, after just being Carey for so many years?
Kosher: To a certain extent, I was NEVER in Kosher shape! (Laughing) If I didn't have my voice loud enough in my monitors, I would just keep pushing harder and harder in a lot of shows to try to make sure I was heard. So keeping my voice from getting shredded was always a challenge. That said, the years have made hitting the high notes harder to hit, and its taking some work to try to get the stamina back.
The other challenge is that we've always written and rehearsed tuned together before...and sometimes to a small extent, after...going into the studio. But now, with technology, I'm hearing a rough mix of tracks for my rehearsal purposes before even arriving in Austin to record vocals, not having worked through them live with the band. After all these years, that is actually particularly hard. I also have a weird timing issue, partly due to me being a music fan first, before being a musician.
I'm also going to need to get into MUCH better shape physically. I've lost a lot of weight in the last year, but I really need to get my cardio up for a proper Pig gig!
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| (1991 album, I Scream Sundae) |
Kosher: Yeah, too many ice cream sundaes and a lot of other stuff for the prior weight gain! But, or course I was never a little guy. It's more about spending too many hours in front of a screen or in a car and not enough chasing my kids, working outside, playing basketball, swimming or running.
G2G: Back to your voice for a second. Was it a conscious effort to get something akin to a pig's squeal at the top end of your vocals...as in "Bowl Of Wrath" or "You're A Pagan"...or is that just how your voice comes out?
Kosher: Actually, on that particular squeal at the beginning of "Bowl Of Wrath", that was some kind of little toy that I think Phillip had picked up. We recorded it on several tracks, slapped some effects on it, and there you have it.
However, I think Billy's (Billy Smiley, producer on all previous OBP records) favorite part of recording was when we got to a part where I was doing some really serious squealing/screaming. They'd get me going on it and I would watch him just doubling over with laughter in the sound booth. The fact that Billy is still rocking and getting ready to release the Union Of Saints And Sinners today is that I gave him an injection of youth through all that laughter he enjoyed at my expense.
G2G: I want to take you back to the 80's for a minute. It seems to me that there was a lot more of a Christian metal community at that time. I mentioned to someone in another interview...maybe it was Rey Parra or Rex Carroll...that I always had this sense that everyone at Pure Metal Records, or everyone at Sanctuary Church...whatever...that they all just hung out and barbecued and were great friends and such. Is there any reality to that belief?
Kosher: I think there was a lot of community that occurred, but not necessarily centered in the labels. That may be more true of some labels than others, though. For instance, in our time with our first label, Pure Metal, we were geographically isolated from the label itself, from the other bands on the label, etc., and we basically did nothing with them. Community occurred when there was real opportunity for relationship, especially for bands who were in it with sincere motives, when we found ourselves at an event or at a show together. There was an instant camaraderie born of shared purposes and commitments. And, if we were in it for the Lord, we tended not to take ourselves too seriously or have a prima dona complex.
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| (Bloodgood's 1986 self-titled album) |
I also think the Sanctuary bands had a community because they lived near each other, they worshiped together...at least in some cases...and they shared similar spiritual leadership. But, once again, it comes down to relationships. That's the basis of real community. And, if shared relationships with the Lord are involved, the process is facilitated and hastened, partly because "How shall brothers walk together, except they be agreed".
G2G: I talk with Rex Carroll from time to time...just yesterday, in fact...and he said much the same thing. Which kind of leads me to my next question. There seems to be several more Christian bands hitting the mainstream now...Skillet, Thousand Foot Krutch, Red, Flyleaf, etc., but they all play festivals with secular bands and tour with secular bands...not that there's anything wrong with that at all. But I do wonder if there is that same sense of camaraderie there. The 80's Christian scene just seemed so tight and so organic... Maybe that was due to the more underground nature of the scene...
Kosher: Well, it's a much different strategy in the model you are talking about today. I suspect that much of the ministry that takes place in those circumstances are the Christian bands forming authentic relationships with other bands, roadies, tour personnel, etc. Not all will be open to their relationships with the Lord, but some will. And, the are actively bringing light into the world. They may not shut down the music and preach a sermon with an altar call, like Glenn Kaiser (Resurrection Band/Rez)...or even your's truly...but they are not in an atmosphere that is conducive to that. I hope that they are doing it that way because they feel called to do so. If they're serious about serving the Lord, that's a tougher road because its a more lonely, more challenging atmosphere. But, I believe God is using many of them in great ways.
G2G: Did you encounter any bands who were in the scene for the wrong reasons? There are a couple of regularly mentioned instances...
Kosher: Yes, but I'm not naming names! (Laughs) Bear in mind that a lot of people in many of these bands were young and immature, getting their first taste of fame...even as a medium perch in a small pond...away from home, and perhaps they had spent more time emulating their rock and roll heroes than Jesus. Others wanted to commit their music to the Lord but weren't sure what that meant. And of course, we were all human. We were assuming roles that carried great responsibility, so we were role models whether we liked it or not. But the proper role to play was not perfect saint on a pedestal. Ideally, we would model a humble,authentic desire to serve and followJesus, while being real but not parading our brokenness.
All of us in One Bad Pig had our moments, as we. One of us had an interaction with a girl...nothing scandalous, but not appropriate...that later came to the attention of Glenn Kaiser. He called me up and asked that we deal with it biblically and seriously, and we did. I, myself, had more than one instance in which I was confronted about significant sin of one kind or another. We took it seriously, we involved our pastors, I repented, and I took steps to change my behavior.
The bands to be concerned about were the ones willing to portray themselves on a pedestal and the ones...sometimes the same bands...who had little-to-no interest in authentically serving the Lord or walking closely with Him. And, while I know I saw that on several occasions, we need to be careful about where we point our judging finger.
Look, some of these bands were being forced into the ministry band mold, and they were not even called to do that. All believers are called to be true to the Lord, but our specific callings, especially vocationally ad publicly, can be quite different. Some of these bands had members whose faith was not truly owned by them or fully formed. Some were just playing a role. I think its a key question for any believer in the arts; what exactly is God calling ME to do with my art? Some people will say that being evangelistic or message-driven with our art is just propaganda and that it is bastardizing the value and authenticity of our art. I would argue that our art, such that it is, is not "selling our faith", or some such thing, rather it is so much a part of who we ARE and what we are ABOUT that it IS an authentic expression.
G2G: Looking back now, did you have any inkling that One Bad Pig would be recording a new album some thirty years after this thing started? I know you couldn't have known specifically, but did it ever occur to you that you might be onto something really lasting and special?
Kosher: Thinking about when or if we thought that we had something special...in a way, EVERYTHING that has happened has been a huge surprise. But, at the same time, from very early on there have been inklings.
I don't know how much your readers know about the origins of the band, but it was really kind of an accident. In fact, it was a joke. Two threads of events among a certain group of friends in Austin, Texas led to the birth of the Pig. In Thread 1, as I am sure is the case in many locales, a bunch of us who were interested in edgier Christian music had managed to find each other. One regular activity that we developed coincided with our weekly Christian rock radio show. Paul Q-Pek was a disc jockey at KIXL, an AM Christian radio station that allowed him a slot on Friday and Saturday nights where he could play whatever was hot and rocking in the Christian scene. Some of us got the idea to go down to some of the punk and metal clubs in town after the radio show and engage in street witnessing with the kids and people who were there. I can remember running down the sidewalks with a couple of friends singing early Undercover and Altar Boys songs acappella.
G2G: I would imagine that was a sight!
Kosher: Right?! Well, Thread 2 is that several of us had heard about the first ever Cornerstone Music Festival in the summer of 1984. A guy named Curtis Tarpley and I drove up to that first one together in my VW Bug. It was AWESOME! For Cornerstone '85, we brought Q-Pek and Melvin Gene "Freedom" Noble, a West-Texas bred Jesus hippie who was totally into JPUSA (Jesus People USA), creators of the festival. We stopped in a suburb of St. Louis at a Pizza Hut for lunch, and they
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| (KSHE's SweetMeat) |
So, weaving those threads together, a bunch of us had been working on planning a local Christian music festival in Austin caled the Zilker Park Labor Day Christian Music Festival. After we got home, we thought, "why not play a short set as One Bad Pig, as sort of a joke?" Our weekend radio schedule began adding music rehearsals to our agenda after that. Freedom wasn't able to play, so we found a bass playing friend, Kevin Phelan. We decided we needed a drum kit, so we recruited a young drummer from Q-Pek's band, named Phillip Owens. We worked on covers of some Lifesavors and Undercover songs, and I wrote the lyrics to an original song that Paul set to music. It was called "Anarchy Is Prison", and it was directed at the anarchist philosophy espoused by at least some punks.
Well, on Labor Day, we did our thing and it was outrageous! It was also ROUGH! (Laughing) It was also, by far, the most aggressive act at the festival. We went into it with a bizarre combination of treating it as both a joke and something serious at the same time. As the band cam on stage, a svelte, shirtless Paul Q-Pek, with a full head of hair leading the way, I came barreling down the hill from behind the audience, screaming and leaping onto the stage to deliver something never seen or heard before...PIG MUSIC! Playing up the pig reference, I delivered a sermonette that riffed off of George Orwell's Animal Farm, screaming at the crowd, "We are One Bad Pig, YOU are One Bad Pig!", saying that we were all unacceptable to God unless washed clean by Jesus' blood.
The thing is, despite offending our share of the crowd, a large number responded positively, even if they hated the music. We prayed with some audience members backstage after the show, and a friend led one person to the Lord, bringing them over to pray with us. People said they could sense God using One Bad Pig that day. From there we started working our way into clubs that we had been witnessing outside of. Repeatedly, we had the experience of seeing an open door, praying about it, then walking through. I don't know that we ever foresaw the scope of the impact we were to have, but all along the way we kept getting glimmers, and open doors, and we kept walking through. It was as though God was giving light for the next few steps but never really telling us the final destination.
Now, it was not all one smooth slope. There were all sorts of bumps, lulls, and interruptions along the way, Yet, one thing kept astounding us--God would use something foolish in the eyes of the world, something that started as a joke...our band...and if we would just make ourselves available and allow Him to use us, He would do just that,
G2G: Here am I...
Kosher: Exactly. So, in a sense, every new step and every new opportunity was...and is...a surprise we would never have anticipated along the way. But, on the other hand, He's done it so often that all these surprises aren't surprising at all.
G2G: You mention offending a segment of the crowds at your early shows, and I was going to ask about that, so it worked out perfectly. Did you have a lot of push back, a lot of doors shut in your face due to your look, sound, name, etc?
Kosher: Absolutely. In fact, that's the source of the name of the first, self-released demo EP, A Christian Banned. There was a local punk label who liked us called Unclean Records. The owner really wanted to sign us. However, he was distributed by a big punk distributor in California and they refused to sign us because we were "too Christian", even though punk was all about self-expression. Within a day or so of hearing that disappointing news, we were turned down to play a coffeehouse hosted by a local church that met at a shopping center. We had even previously played there. Why? Because we were "too worldly". So, we found ourselves, in the words of the great Mark Heard, "...too sacred for the sinners/And the saints wish I would leave/Now I'm stuck here in the middle..."
G2G: Alright, let's fast forward to a bit more success for the band, because it really isn't all that far down the road that you find yourself working with a man many consider to be THE original punk...the original rebel...Johnny Cash...
Kosher: Yep. What an honor it was to work with Johnny. That voice was AMAZING! He was so humble, and he really wanted to serve the Lord and to contribute to what we were doing. Very cool. We need a lot more like Johnny around. It was very clear that he wasn't a perfect man, but his transparency about that and his need for Christ made his faith and testimony that much more real and powerful.
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| (L-R: Phillip, Kosher, Johnny, Daniel, Q-Pek) |
G2G: So, how did the Johnny Cash teaming even come about? You aren't exactly likely to show up on the same radar screen very often...
Kosher: We had several special guests on our first two records with Billy Smiley, and we really wanted everything on our third record, I Scream Sunday, to be just us, unless we had one REALLY special guest on the album. So, the Johnny Cash connection started as a case of our people talking to his people, specifically our A&R guy, Mark Maxwell. After it became a realistic possibility, Paul Q-Pek worked up the great arrangement of the song, "The Man In Black". I recorded my vocal part and a scratch vocal of Johnny's part.
As the time approached to make some final decisions, a few things happened. I had gone back to Austin to leave the mixes to the other guys, and we got invited to a John, Jr. 18th Birthday Bash being held at a massive club out in the boonies outside of Nashville. I had read Johnny's book, The Man In White, a novella about the Apostle Paul's conversion upon encountering the Man in white on the road to Damascus, and I was impressed. A lot of people were. Even Billy Graham called it the best fictional treatment of Paul he had ever read. But I was not only impressed with the book, but
The record company flew me back out to be there for John, Jr.'s party. and we went with the hope and expectation of meeting Johnny and spending a little time with him, getting to pitch the idea of him doing the duet. But, as it turned out, this place was packed with hundreds and hundreds of country music elite. It was filled with smoke and warm bodies an is perhaps the most crowded place I've ever been in my life. We finally saw Johnny and June take the stage, along with John Jr., and a bunch of others. But, not very long after that, Johnny announced that June was not feeling very well and that they were unfortunately going to have to leave early.
They started up an aisle from the stage with a press of people and security all around them. I began to fight my way through the crowd as quickly as I could and spilled outside the door at the top of the stairs just after Johnny had done the same. With trepidation, I called out to him and told him who I was and handed him this letter. The next day he called and tld his manager that he wanted to do this One Bad Pig thing.
G2G: Awesome!
Kosher: So...the record company flew me back to Austin and then back out again for the recording session. As we waited for things to get underway, we heard of several print publications that were going to come out and record the session for posterity. This also included the Crook & Chase country television show. We were so excited that we were going to have a larger audience to spread the gospel to with this opportunity! One by one, we learned that none of these organizations were going to be able to come and cover the session that day, however. We were disappointed. Not only that, but Johnny was also quite late in arriving.
After a period of time, Daniel suggested we go outinto the larger recording room and spend some time in prayer. We circled up and began to pray. It was during that time that Johnny showed up, and he explained to us that he had been on a deathwatch at his mother's bedside. However, he told us he really wanted to do this with us and he felt he needed to get away for a little while. Daniel invited him to join the circle and pray with us and we did so. What a powerful time!
Johnny was incredible. I cringed every time Billy Smiley would offer a suggestion or ask him to do another take, but Johnny was great and always humble obliged. Afterwards we posed for pictures and shot Silly String at each other.As I was traveling home that night, I was reading in Mark's gospel about how Peter protested when Jesus said he was to be arrested and killed. You might remember that Jesus told Peter, "Get behind me, Satan!" As I read that passage, I heard the Lord speak to me, "Get behind me, Satan! You are concerned about the things of men rather than the things of God. I didn't need you today to proclaim my name on some television show. I needed you there to pray with one of my children."
Even as I tell you that story today, Arttie, I get tears in my eyes.
It was only last year when we were reminiscing for Carl's book project that I learned that Johnny's mother recovered from that illness and went on to live a few more years. By the way, I've learned that Carl has had some health probles and I encourage everyone to lift him up in prayer.
G2G: So, Kosher, as we speak, you Kickstarter goal has been met and surpassed, including the stretch goal which allows for vinyl pressings of the new record. What does it feel like to you guys to still mean so much to your fans after all these years?
Kosher: We are thrilled! And humbled! It just blows us away what the Lord continues to do, and we are doing our dead level best to really make it worth everybody's while. We're bathing it in prayer and working really hard. The creativity of the guys in the band is awesome. You know, Billy Smiley was the producer on all of our previous releases, and he's already let us know that he really likes how it's sounding.
It's also great to know that not only will we really get to do the CD, we will also for sure now be able to do the vinyl record. That is so cool, and we are stoked.
I don't know how many shows we are going to get to do with this, but I do know that just like always, it's going to be 110% mayhem and 110% ministry all the way. No holding anything back.
G2G: You teack at a college, correct? I teach high school, myself.
Kosher: Really?
G2G: Yeah, I work with juvenile offenders and struggling kids...
Kosher: That's awesome, Arttie. I'm a full-time pastor, but I am teaching an Old Testament course as an adjunct at Bethel University in McKenzie, Tennessee this semester. I truly enjoy it.
When I lived in Austin, I worked over a decade in a hospital/treatment center for head-injured and multiple-diagnosis behavioral disorder patients. Most of that time I spent working in an accredited school they had on campus. Then, the last year and a half in Austin, I worked with our county's juvenile offender intervention program, intended as a last gasp attempt before the kids hit the state system. So, I have some ideas of what you're dealing with.
G2G: That's awesome...
Kosher: When we moved to Tennessee and I went back to finish college, I got my degree and teaching certificate in Exceptional Learning and Development (Special Education). That was before going on to seminary, even though that was the plan all along.
G2G: I am also endorsed in Special Education...
Kosher: Very cool...very cool...
G2G: So, do any of your students know the "Kosher" side of Mr. Womack?
Kosher: I've mentioned it, but so far they seem pretty unimpressed. (Laughs) I'm going to tell a good story from back in the day on Monday, though, so we'll see where that goes. (Laughs)
There's a guy that comes into the math class that meets in our room right after us who connected with me around St. Paddy's Day...you know, all things Irish. He really likes a lot of the Irish punk bands
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| (Chicago punks, Flatfoot 56) |
It's funny where Pig connections come up, though. We have some kids at church who go to high school in the next county up. Their band director, it turns out, is a big Pig fan!
G2G: So, you're packing up the Pig van for a big show. How many cans of Silly String go?
Kosher: Well, I guess that depends on the money left over from the Kickstarter campaign! (Laughs) Just kidding...mostly! In general, we have two cans per band member per show, plus two for our onstage hand, and a few backups. So, for a standard show, around 15 or so. For a really big show, with maybe more active stage hands, more like 25.
Pretty early on, particularly when we were a four piece, we decided if we were going to travel with one extra person, we were better off traveling with a stage hand than with a sound guy, and we were right.
G2G: How about guitars to smash?
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| (The One Bad Pig SMASH logo) |
Kosher: It depends. How many guitars can we find cheap? (Laughs) Yeah, that's right Pig fans, we;re not out there smashing $5000 guitars...or $500 guitars for that matter...night after night. We usually go to a pawn shop and say, "Do you have any guitars that you don't have out right now?
Maybe something that's in such bad shape you're embarrassed to put it out right now...", and we go from there.
Of course, we take donations, as well. (In his best advertisement voice) Do YOU have a guitar whose better days are way behind it? An instrument that fights instead of plays? A six-string that screeches unknown notes instead of sings? Bring it to us and we will help it go out in splinters of glory! (Laughs)
Anyway...what were you asking?
G2G: (Laughing) How many do you take?
Kosher: Oh, yeah. At least one more than we think we'll need. For a small, routine show, it may just be me smashing one guitar, or perhaps me and an audience member. For a bigger gig, we'd like to have multiple smashes, and it depends on what we can afford. Of course, we offered as Kickstarter rewards the opportunity to smash a guitar with us on-stage at either the Audiofeed Festival or the album release show in Austin on June 24. To be honest, we haven't completely planned our stage set ye, so who knows how many stringed instruments we may have?
G2G: Do you still give on-stage haircuts?
Kosher: (Laughs) Let's Be Frank, Arttie, big hair, long hair...it's not nearly the problem it was 25 years ago. And, government regulations are likely much more stringent today. I'd rather eat a Bowl of Wrath! Frankly, I don't care if a guy's (or girl's) hair looks like a Birdnest, I'm not likely to give them a haircut. In fact, I may tell them to Take A Flying Leap! And, if someone doesn't like the way I'm answering this question, I say, "Take A Look At Yourself!" Ask me if I'm scared; tell me if you See Me Sweat! (Interviewer's note...all of the above entries in capital letters are titles of One Bad Pig songs that Kosher was throwing in for amusement...)
Actually, we have a large back catalog of songs filled with antics, and we're not going to be doing each and every one of them. Not likely to get many two and a half hour sets these days. And we want to play a bunch of these great new songs, so...I don't know about the haircuts. We'll see what happens.
G2G: My kids are 8 and 4 and are big "Big Bad Pig" fans, as my 4 year old calls you. He loves "For A Good Man" and "Birdnest" and "Smash The Guitar", while my 8-year old loves "Never Forget The Cross" and will sing "We Want You" at the top of his lungs. I realize you don't play out a lot now, but did you see a lot of multi-generational families at shows?
Kosher: It's funny, but we've seen a lot of young children, down to toddler age...
G2G: Piglets!
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| (One Bad Pig's label debut) |
Kosher: (Laughs) Piglets, yes! We've seen a lot who love One Bad Pig. We don't know exactly what that says about our musical credibility. Purple dinosaurs, Teletubbies, Bad Pigs?! I can remember when A Christian Banned came out, how a couple were absolutely delighted at how much their 2 year old loved to dance crazily to One Bad Pig. I think we've seen the growth of the multi-generational thing as the years have passed and parents, like you, have passed it on. However, we haven't gotten to see it a ton at shows because we've played so seldom over the last 10-15 years. Since we're hoping to do at least a little flurry of shows with this project, it will be something fun to watch out for. We'll definitely be looking for the Parker kids! (Laughs)
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| (New album artwork!) |
G2G: Well, now that the album has been fully funded, and the name has been dropped (Mitch Connell Presents Love You To Death is the title, with Connell winning his name on the cover as part of the Kickstarter campaign), it seems natural to ask if this will be the "swine song" for the band, or more of a rebirthing of sorts. Could you see the band doing another record...maybe even just an EP every now and then?
Kosher: Here's a good rule of thumb for One Bad Pig: never say never! Personally, I can't stand EPs! If you've got five good songs, designed a cover, mixed and mastered, and paid to have them pressed up, by all means, take a little more time and give us five or ten more songs! That's one of my little pet peeves.
But, to your question, who would have ever believed that God would use us like He already has? Who would have ever believed we would record again after 25 years? Let's not get in a hurry and decide what God's going to do a year from now. As a matter of fact, right now I'm working on a song about giving God room to work, giving the Holy Spirit room to breathe. So, let's just see what happens.
G2G: Any chance this new tour...or at least these new shows...could be recorded for a new DVD or live album?
Kosher: There is indeed a chance, but we don't know what will come of it right now. The best chance to see the Pig is to make it to Austin, to Audiofeed in Illinois, or to try to line up having us come to your community, wherever you may be.
G2G: Carey, it has been amazing to talk to you after all of these years of loving what you do. I'm so very happy that you guys have met your Kickstarter goals, that you have a new album and some new dates scheduled...it just makes me smile! For those who want to know, how many dates do you currently have lined up, and where? Is there a website of some sort people can follow, or just Facebook?
Kosher: Arttie, I've enjoyed this as well. Are you planning on going to Audiofeed? Hoping I can bump into you.
G2G: Kind of like the Pig, never say never... (Laughs)
Kosher: (Laughs) Awesome. At this point, I think Facebook is probably a lot more current than our website. As we make changes to get the website more current, we will announce it on Facebook. We'll also announce project updates, new live shows, and perhaps some teasers on Facebook as well.
If someone wants us to get a message directly to or from them, they can message us and give us their email address.
We'll be keeping our Kickstarter supporters regularly updated on that page, also. We also want to leave information about basic pre-orders and where those can take place just as soon as we can get that set up.
As far as shows, right now we only have the two "Written in Stone" dates: Audiofeed in Urbana, Illinois from July first through the third, and in Austin, Texas on June 24. That's the album release show. We also have a date in mind, June 30, in or around Camden, Tennessee, but nothing is concrete, so more details will some as we can finalize them. Other than that, we have a few possibilities being discussed, mostly in Texas. In terms of doing much more traveling, that depends upon the level of interest and who wants to help us make it happen. We just want the Lord to use us.
G2G: Thanks again, Carey...sorry, Kosher...for sharing so much with us. I've really had a blast!
Kosher: Blessings to you, your family, your website, and your students, Arttie. And thank you.
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There it is folks...straight from the Pig's mouth! Be on the lookout for the new One Bad Pig record sometime in June of 2016, and keep an eye open for the band to possibly play a show or two in the Midwest this summer. You can check out the band's website at www.onebadpig.com , but as Kosher said, it is not overly up-to-date. Facebook is a good way to track the band and their schedule, and you can do that here. There is also a One Bad Pig fanpage on Facebook at this location. AND...if you haven't had a chance, check out our review of Swine Flew right here on G2G!
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